Za zdravje, za Zasavje

24. junij 2009 ob 0:30 | Denis Sarkić |

Ekološko osveščeni zasavci, točneje EKO KROG - društvo za naravovarstvo in okoljevarstvo, vabijo na protest za boljši jutri in proti onesnaževanju Lafarge Cementa, ki bo se bo zgodil danes v sredo 24. junija ob 15.30 pred poslopjem ARSO in ob 16.00 pred ministrstvom za okolje in prostor.

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Komentarji - 179 x komentirano
  1. Sašo pravi:

    Grozna statistika… še bolj grozna pa je pasivnost Zasavcev… Upam da bo dovolj velik obisk protesta, drugače nam tako ali tako ni pomoči.
    Se bomo res morali seliti ven iz Zasavja, če bomo hoteli dat dostojno prihodnost svojim otrokom?

  2. sanja pravi:

    Moram priznati, da je najava 2 dni pred shodom prekratka, po moje novica v 2 dneh ne more doseči toliko ljudi, kot bi jih, če bi imela malo več časa za kroženje. Vsekakor navijamo za čim večjo udeležbo. Ljudje se počasi prebujajo iz apatije.

  3. Mimi pravi:

    Sanja: “je najava 2 dni pred shodom prekratka”
    Res je. No vseen upam, da bo čimboljši odziv (in tud ‘rezultat’, čeprav v bistvu žal dvomim v kakšen učinek).
    Res grozljivo in svinjsko, sočustvujem z Zasavci. :(

  4. luka pravi:

    In kako lahko ministrstvo za okolje dovoli tako svinjarijo?
    In kako lahko ministrstvo za zdravje dovoli tako svinjarijo?

    Kdo je kle podmazan?

    Kaj imamo slovenci od lafarža?
    Dobčki gredo v tujino?
    Okolje je zasrano kle?
    Ljudje so bolni kle?
    Zaposlenih je pa nogoč 100, domačih junakov, bi bodo itak zboleli?

    Družbeni strošek lafarža je večji od koristi!

    Kdo je podmazan?

  5. JBTPTKŠNKZDRVJ pravi:

    sicko.si

  6. Sašo pravi:

    Končno so spregovorili tudi zdravniki!

    Preberite si Zdravniško in farmacevtsko pismo namenjeno županom in svetnikom zasavskih občin:
    http://www.ekokrog.org/2009/06/24/zdravnisko-in-farmacevtsko-pismo/

  7. sanja pravi:

    samo en odstavek iz tega pisma zdravnikov:
    “…Ob teh rezultatih, ki so porazni za Zasavje, se čudimo, kako lahko država izdaja dovoljenja za še večje onesnaževanje okolja, saj je ta ista država z Ministrstvom za zdravje sodelovala pri projektu »Zdravje za Zasavje«, ki je evidentno pokazal ogroženost in obremenjenost tega dela Slovenije…”

  8. Zbik pravi:

    Je šel kdo kaj prebrat, kaj v študijah piše? A to, da je GLAVNI razlog za povišanje raka po 1971 STARANJE PREBIVALSTVA, to je pa “podatek preveč”, kajne? Vsaj za progagandne namene.

    Študija o obolevnosti dihal [1] je bila anketa.. samoizbranih staršev, podžganih in zlobiranih od EKO-kroga. In tako imenovana “poglobljena analiza” se nanaša na to, da so podatke spustili še čez “logistično regresijo” [2] v spss. Po domače povedano, niso podatkov nategovali na ravnilo, ampak na krivuljo v obliki črke S. To je bila vsa “poglobljenost”. In končno, študija sama kliče po meritvah onesnaženosti, ki naj objektivizirajo škodljivost nekaterih mikrolokacij.

    Glede obolevnosti s pljučnim rakom, kot izhaja iz državnega registra rakovne obolevnosti, si je veliko želeti.
    Navedejo sicer dve mikrolokaciji, ki naj bi bili še posebej škodljivi (bližina steklarne, TKI), vendar kaj drugega tu ni. Nihče ni npr. pogledal kaj je s prebivališči teh ljudi. Morda pa imajo povišane koncentracije radona, ker zaradi smradu manj prezračujejo prostore…Ta vidik ni niti omenjen, kaj šele preučen.

    Ne glede na to, tudi tisti poziv lekarnarjev in dohtarjev kliče po zmanjšanju okoljske obremenitve. Tu edino veljajo “trdni podatki”, hard data.
    - So meritve ali jih?
    - Je narejena študija izpustov ob izgorevanju neklasičnih goriv, da ali ne?
    - So izpusti v mejah dopustnga, da ali ne?
    - Je uveden stalni 24/7 monitoring?
    - Kakšne so predvideni ukrepi ob prekoračenih mejhih vrednosti za strukturirane stopnje tveganja?
    - pa še kaj

    Gotovo je LaFarge del problema. Glede na našiljeno retoriko, perfidno, selektivno citiranje virov, ki so nastali po njihovih lastnih pobudah, pa se bojim, da EKO-krog sploh ni del rešitve. Nasprotno, je del problema.

    [1] http://www.zagorje.si/dokument.aspx?id=843
    [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logistic_regression

  9. Sašo pravi:

    - So meritve ali jih?
    So… vendar samo za so2 in prašne delce… potrebno bi bilo meriti še dioksine, ki se sproščajo pri sežiganju odpadkov. Problem je tudi ta, da meritve izvaja Lafarge sam sebi. Tiste bolj podrobne meritve, ki jih izvajajo drugi, pa so napovedane (mislim da 1x ali 2x na leto). To je tako, kot če se jaz najavim k tebi na obisk - prepričan sem, da boš malo pospravil stanovanje.

    - Je narejena študija izpustov ob izgorevanju neklasičnih goriv, da ali ne?
    Obstaja veliko študij, ki dokazujejo, da so sežigalnice odpadkov in cementarne s sosežigom eden najhujših onesnaževalcev, kar se tiče dioksinov (za nepoznavalce: dioksin se je uporabljal kot bojni strup)

    - So izpusti v mejah dopustnga, da ali ne?
    ARSO je dal cementarni LaFarge dovoljenje izpustov nekaterih strupov kar 20x večje kot je sicer predpisano za sežigalnice odpadkov v Sloveniji. Spet smo pri tem, da se meri veliko premalo snovi… SO2 se bo gotovo zmanjšal, saj se ob odpadkih le-ta ne sprošca. Problem so drugi strupi!

    - Je uveden stalni 24/7 monitoring?
    Uveden… vendar za veliko premalo različnih snovi.

    - Kakšne so predvideni ukrepi ob prekoračenih mejhih vrednosti za strukturirane stopnje tveganja?
    Lafarge je imel v letu 2006 (ne me držat za besedo za letnico - mogoče leto prej mogoče kasneje… se da preverit) preko 200 izpadov elektrofiltrov. Izpad elektrofiltra po slovenski zakonodaji pomeni ekološko katastrofo - ob kataloški katastrofi pa bi se morala (spet po zakonodaji) firma takrat ustavit in ugotoviti, zakaj je prišlo do tega problema. Zaradi izpada filtra se lafarge ni ustavila nikdar.

    - pa še kaj
    kaj še?

  10. urbi pravi:

    Zbik in Sašo

    Lepo sta predstavila problematiko. Za razliko od dežurnih komentatorjev, sta na zaslon izpostavila prave probleme in nejasnosti.

    Vseeno pa bi malo pokomentiral. Sašota moti ker je naročnik REDNIH meritev Lafarge. Hja, kako pa naj bi bilo drugače?!

    Dam primer, če jaz vem, da moja prijateljica Francka rada je ocvirke, jaz pa rad vidim, da pride k meni na obisk, jo bom seveda poklical in jo poinformiral, da jih ravno pečem in da je povabljena. Prijateljica Francka pa seveda prav tako dobro ve, da če bo prišla k meni kar tako, ko ji zapaše, da me morda ne bo doma, če pa že bom bom, obstaja možnost,da bom tisti dan pekel palačinke namesto ocvirkov. Tako bo ona žalostna, ker ni ocvirkov, pa tudi meni ne bo všeč, ker se bom bal da me več ne bo obiskala. No ravno tako je s tovarno, monitoring se mora delat, ko je tovarna laufa na ful, nihče izven tovarne ne more vedeti ali bodo npr. v petek delali na ful ali pa bodo malo šraufali svoje stroje.

    Morda bo na podlagi očitnega nezaupanja javnosti v redne meritve, okoljsko ministrstvo začelo izvajat nenapovedane meritve. To bi bilo za pozdravit. Seveda bi moral prej spremenit zakonodajo.

    Glede dioksinov ne bi zgubljal besed, pejte si pogledat na WHO. Vir dioksinov je tudi gorenje lesa in delovanje avtomobilov na bencin. Finta je v temu, da morata biti skupaj klor, ogljik in temperatura nekje med 300 do 500 stopinj celzija. Je pa seveda res, da je Agent Orange, ki je postal znan iz Vietnama vseboval dioksine. Ampak to je že druga zgodba.

    Glede stalnega monitoringa. Kopico snovi pač ni mogoče meriti trajno. Ena od takih snovi je dioksin. Tudi meni bi bilo všeč če bi lahko merili kar vse stalno in to na vseh dimnkih vseh tovarn v SLO, ampak to danes tehnično in finančno ni mogoče. To je podobno kot v avtu, bilo bi ful dobr, če bi lahko meril trajno NOx, prah pa izkoristek in ne vem še kaj vse, na koncu pa čisto zadostuje da nam computer meri trenutno porabo goriva. Preko tega in barve auspuha, znamo prav lepo ocenit, kako dela motor. Kak ekspert pogleda še kako je izrabljen profil na gumah in že na uč vidi ali je model “šarf” voznik ali pa je “penzioner”. Tud cementarne se, da nadzorovat enako.

    @Sašo prosim povej, kje v slovenski zakonodaji piše da je izpad elektrofiltra ekološka katastrofa?
    Da je izpad filtra sranje se strinjam, ampak kje v zakonodaji piše da je to ekološka katastrofa?

  11. Sašo pravi:

    Da je izpad filtra sranje se strinjam, ampak kje v zakonodaji piše da je to ekološka katastrofa?

    zpad fitrskega papirja naredi enormni kratkotrajni presežek vseh strupov ki se merijo - in to je v zakonodaji označeno kot ekološka katastrofa.

  12. urbi pravi:

    @Sašo

    oprosti ampak imam problem. Termin “ekološka katastrofa” ni v uporabi v Zakonu o varstvu okolja objavljenem v Uradnem listu Republike Slovenije.

    O čem se mi tu pravzaprav pogovarjamo?
    Zbik je lepo rekel, veljajo le “hard data”, natolcevanje ne šteje.

    Predvidevam da si namesto “ekološka katastrofa” želel uporabiti eden od naslednjih terminov, ki pa so definirani v Zakonu o varstvu okolja:
    - Čezmerna obremenitev okolja
    - Okoljska nesreča
    - Večja nesreča

    Vsak od teh treh terminov ima svoj pomen in svoje posledice. V kolikor želiš soustvarjati resno debato je potrebno uporabljati pravilne izraze v pravih besednih zvezah.

    PS: brez zamere amapak ne bom več repliciral, enostavno ne vidim smisla, saj imam vtis, da je argumentacija, tako pro kot contra nezaželjena.

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